nolly

saturns get REALLY good mileage (the wagon gets 31-34 average depending on load) BUT BUT BUT don't get one > about 75k miles.

you *might* be better off, especially where you are, getting a late 70s to mid 80s datsun or toyota and having a full rebuild (so, a $1,000 car with a $2,000 "make it new" - not popular, but you live in the right place to do it- no rust, no road salt, and you can get the body and interior done dirt cheap with a trip to TJ

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I've seen a Saturn after a wreck. No thanks! Too breakable. I'm thinking Toyota or Honda, or the equivalent.

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wcg.livejournal.com

Before you give up entirely on Saturn, you might at least consider one of the newer (since 2003) Ions. They're a bit more sturdy than the earlier SLs, and get almost as good mileage.

Other than that, the Toyota Corolla is always a good bet if you can find one, as is the Honda Civic. The small Mazdas are also good cars if you can find one.

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true- while the frame does what it's supposed to like any decent toyota would, the saturn body panels do look pretty bad after a wreck. Not that body panels do much to protect people.

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It was the tire at ~45 degrees to the ground that made me say "never", actually.

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if it was a rear, I'd be disappointed in saturn, but on front wheel drive cars the rear wheels are just there to keep the bumbper off the gorund and iprove gas mileage (less friction if you aren't dragging the back of the car on the ground)- they don't *do* much else.

Front wheels- on front wheel drive cars the front wheels are VERY VERY moveable- as they have to be able to be driven (deliver power from the drive train to the earth) at constantly shifting angles. so it's extremely unlikely that the whole wheel and (flexible because it S tttttttttttt) drive shaft/axle assembly could come off. Bend? YES! because it is designed to- it has to to run on anything other than straight rails.

So what's keeping it "level" so to speak is the strut and shock system. if an accident breaks that system, it's probably going to look pretty ugly, like a wheel sitting at a 45 degree angle. But that's not anything in the car breaking except part of the suspension. Which is actually a good design consideration, since the suspension system gives a time-effect absortion of stress before failure.

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Pretty use it was rear, unless my memory is scrambled.

It's looking like an '04-06 Civic Hybrid may be feasible, though.

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erikvolson.livejournal.com

Still thrilled with my Honda Civic Hybrid after 3 years and 40K miles. Hmm, time to take to dealer...

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Probably out of my budget, alas; I really didn't want to replace the truck this year.

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Hmm...might happen after all, if the price I found on a certified pre-owned '03 isn't a typo and no one beats me to it...

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buddykat.livejournal.com

Hondas and Toyotas are very nice. When I (eventually) buy a new car, those are at the top of my list (in that order).

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lisa-marli.livejournal.com

Ford Escort. Our 93 and 94 are still doing pretty well. I think you can go up to 98 and still get something good (they got weird and oval after that). I've also heard good things about the Ford Focus (the Escort's replacement). Three years old should be a good value.
We have the Wagon which holds a Ton of Crap for going to cons.
I also love my Prius, but that won't be cheap even at 3 years old.

Lists from Consumer Reports

Under $4000
Chevrolet Prizm ‘98; Tracker ‘98
Ford Escort ‘99
Geo Prizm ’97
Mazda Protegé ‘97-98
Mercury Tracer ‘99
Subaru Impreza ‘97
Suzuki Sidekick ‘98

$4-6K
Acura CL ‘97-98; Integra ’97; TL ‘97
Chevrolet Prizm ‘99-00; Tracker ‘99
Ford Crown Victoria ’98; Escort ’02; F-150 ‘97
Honda Accord ’97; Civic ‘97-98; CR-V ’97; Odyssey ‘97
Isuzu Oasis ‘97-98
Mazda B-Series (2WD) ’98; Millenia ’98; Protegé ‘99-00
Mercury Grand Marquis ‘98
Mitsubishi Galant ‘00
Nissan 200SX ’97; 240SX ’97; Altima ’98; Frontier ’98; Maxima ’97; Pathfinder ’97; Pickup ‘97; Sentra ’97, ‘99
Saturn SL ’99; SW ‘99
Subaru Impreza ’98; Legacy ‘97-98
Suzuki Grand Vitara ‘99
Toyota Avalon ’97, Camry ’97; Celica ’97; Corolla ‘97-99; Echo ’00; RAV4 ‘97-98; Sienna ’98; Tacoma ‘97

I can grab higher up if you need it. I'm a subscriber.

There are No Hondas or Toyotas on their Consistently Bad Bets list.

That should get you started at any rate.

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I get the magazine, but have never sprung for website access. I should see if I can find their last car book...it's around here, somewhere....

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magicheide.livejournal.com

May I suggest you at least look at a used Prius? They have great gas mileage, more room than you would think with a hidden panel trunk and easy flip down back seats, and they drive like a dream.

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...you can get a much newer, lower-mileage Yaris that gets just as good a mileage on the highway usually, as long as she doesn't mind the look of the Yaris, that is. =^.^=

If she could wait until the 2009-model-year Honda Fit comes out though, I'd call that the best option, they're upgrading the engine so it'll get 120hp but the same gas mileage, and basically the same vehicle otherwise.

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Sorry, that was me!

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phreespirit.livejournal.com

Yaris was rated HORRIBLY for crash-test ratings.

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Depends on the crash-test you look at. *shrugs* I've avoided at least two accidents in my Yaris because it's nimble enough to do so, but I'm much more a fan of attentive driving and 'active safety' than SUV-style 'plow through a brick wall and don't feel it' passive safety.

And the only crash-test the Yaris Liftback did poorly on AFAIK was the side-impact if it didn't have the side-curtain airbags, you're a very tall individual, and someone in an equally-tall SUV plows into it in a perfect T-Bone. The door itself didn't buckle in that crash-test thanks to the crash-bar, and for front/rear crashes it did quite well. Hell, it was one of the best options if you're going to be rear-ended. =^.^=

Also, please remember that the Yaris Liftback and the Yaris Sedan don't share any components except the engine and transmission, which is the same one as the Prius in both cases. Even when they look similair (like the dashboard) they don't share any components at all. The Liftback (Vitz elsewhere) was designed in Europe, the Sedan (Belta elsewhere) was designed in Japan. That they get to share crash-test results in many cases abhors me, they don't share any body or structural parts at all. =-.-=

Edited Date: 2008-02-07 05:44 am (UTC)

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tkil.livejournal.com

Yaris Liftback and the Yaris Sedan don't share any components except the engine and transmission, which is the same one as the Prius in both cases.

Pretty sure that's false. It might use the same 1.5L block, but even that is unlikely (since the Prius uses an offset Atkinson 4-stroke cycle, not the typical Otto cycle).

And the Prius "transmission" exists only in the joining of the electric motor/generators and the internal combustion engine -- hence, you can't get "a Prius transmission" without also getting a hybrid.

Don't get me wrong; I feel that, if you can afford it and if it fits your lifestyle, the Honda Fit / Yaris liftback / Nissan Versa are all great bets (pretty much in that order, though, if I recall the Consumer Reports list correctly). Sadly still in the 10-15k$ range, which might be more than

nolly is looking to spend.

And used Prii are hideously expensive, and likely to just go up in value (given that SoCal will be staring down 4$/USgal gas this year). If I didn't love my 2005 so much, I'd try to sell it at the peak of the summer market -- expensive gas, and I have the HOV stickers. :) With 50k miles, I might still manage to get close to 20k$ for that combo. :-/

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Sorry, reversed two words, meant 'transmission and engine, which it shares with the Prius' because except for the crankshaft (which will work in the Yaris engines, some enthusiasts have done the swap without issues) and the programming on the ECU, the Yaris engine is mechanically the same as the Prius.

You're right though, the Prius has no transmission as such. =^.^= And considering the Yaris can out-do the Prius for many people on highway trips, they're selling used with 12k for a one-year-old for as much as they sold for new at the dealership, from what I'm seeing on-line in many places. =O.o=

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tkil.livejournal.com

Sorry, reversed two words, meant 'transmission and engine, which it shares with the Prius' because except for the crankshaft (which will work in the Yaris engines, some enthusiasts have done the swap without issues) and the programming on the ECU, the Yaris engine is mechanically the same as the Prius.

I'm not meaning to hammer on you, but can you offer me a source on this? My understanding is that the current (2004-present) Prius uses the Atkinson 4-stroke cycle, which no other production vehicle does. So "mechanically the same" would have to exclude crankshaft offset and camshaft timing (let alone the iVVT magic that the Prius includes).

And again, let me reiterate that I'm not anti-Yaris; for its segment, the Yaris and the Fit are both excellent choices, and I will happily applaud anyone who chooses economy and fitness-to-task over "i have an SUV, hear me roar!" status/image bullshit.

When the rubber hits the road, however, I expect a Yaris to turn in about 40mpg on the canonical

tkil SoCal commute, while I reliably got 50mpg in my 2005 Prius. (Ocean Beach to Rancho Bernardo, 25mi each way, net 600ft gain, I can offer you as much data as you care to digest on this topic.)

Does

nolly commute enough for that 10mpg to make a difference? Does she ever carry enough people / cargo that the compact Yaris is insufficient compared to the mid-sized 2004+ Prius? I don't know. I do know that I'm completely satisfied with my 2005 Prius, and if someone has the funds to afford it, and a lifestyle that fits it, I have no reseverations at all to recommending the current Prius.

(If anything, the indecision now is whether to wait for 2009 or 2010 models that might have Li-Ion batteries and/or plug-in ("PHEV") capabilities. In the face of "what can I buy this week", however, recent Prii are still excellent options for people with long, predictable commutes, especially in temperate climates.)

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I'll leave the individual MPG's up to you, I've clocked in 49MPG once in my Yaris on a pure highway trip, usually I clock in around 45. Many people have broken 50MPG in them, so I've seen evidence that the Yaris Liftback is able to keep up or out-do the Prius in longer-distance drives. Not always, not by any stretch.

As for the engines, that part's easy. They both use the 1.5l Toyota NZ-series engine, with the Prius using the same mechanism as the VVT-i components to highly retard the intake cams, which is how it does it's Atkinson cycle. The Yaris (and most other 1NZ-FE engine vehicles) uses the same mechanism to vary the cam timing for more even torque across the board and across various loads.

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My current commute is ~ 20 miles each way, El Cajon to downtown La Jolla. Basically, the full length of 52, with a few miles of surface street at each end. I've been doing this in a Ranger that averages 17-18 mpg overall, which means I'm spending $250-$350 a month on gas, roughly. (depending on the prices) I'd like a much more efficient car both because it's easier on the planet and because the fuel savings can offset the car payment.

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aldren.livejournal.com

I really like my Echo, which if the very confused Wikipedia article is to be believed, used to be sold here but isn't, because it got turned into the Yaris. Or something. I still think Yaris sounds like what a pirate would drive.

John Davis drove an Echo, too. At least, until he got in a crash.

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Unless that Fit is coming out in the next week or two, it's not an option. If I could wait, I'd still be considering the Smart, though I'm still not crazy about its suspension.

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The absolute cheapest used Prius in SoCal on CarSmart is around 14K, and that's an '01, which is old enough that the battery life may become an issue. That price range isn't absolutely out of the question, particularly given the fuel savings, but I'd like to keep it lower.

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$13k would let you drive a 0-odometer Yaris off the dealership. =O.o= I had no idea Prii were selling for that much used.

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I won't bash the prius, but I'll say you don't *have* to have a hybrid to get good mileage. The prius is a *fun* car, but the hybrid thing isn't really a whole lot more in gas savings than a 1978 honda acccord.

I'd also suggest, if you want to look at gasoline and mileage, a used Mini, or a relatively recenty jetta. If you cna find a used deisel jetta in nearly any condition, get it- and find a shop that deals with deisel volkswagens. You'll get your 40+ mpg right there.

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Diesels seem hard to come by in CA, much as it seems a good idea. If I can get something with an EPA rating over 32mpg, I'll get a lower rate on my loan. (I *heart* my credit union!)

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okoshun.livejournal.com

I'd probably be looking at a Toyota Yaris, Matrix or Prius if you have the cash to go for it. If you're used to having a truck, the Matrix might be better since it has more room to carry things in the back.

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Edmunds likes the Pontiac Vibe, which is the Matrix with some cosmetic differences, so I was thinking about that. Prius, much as I'd like to go hybrid, isn't in my budget.

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lylemullican.livejournal.com

We love our '03 Civic. Great mileage, reasonable price tag and it's pretty nimble.

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Hi there! Good to know -- Civic and Corolla were on my short list already.

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dieppe.livejournal.com

I love my 2001 Toyota Rav4. With manual transmission I get about 24mpg city driving. I also have plenty of headroom, though not a problem you're likely to have. :)

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Unfortunately, I don't really know how to drive stick, and I'm hoping for close to 30mpg or better, though that may not happen on my budget.

$mdlbear: blue fractal bear with text "since 2002" (Default)$

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mdlbear

I'm partial to Honda, especially the Civic and Accord.

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jeran.livejournal.com

I've had good luck with the 2007 Ford Focus (the hatchback version), but I managed to snag one with a stick shift. Toyota and Honda also have good reps.

From experience I can tell you their offer's not likely to anywhere near cover the cost of a replacement. You'll want to find listings for the same make, model and year to argue them up some. That'll be just their collision coverage. Since this isn't your insurance, there's also their liability coverage. You'll need a lawyer for that part of it, though.

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Yeah, I have an estimate from my insurance already; waiting to hear from hers. It's not the cost of a replacement, but it's a decent down payment on one, and about what I expected, based on the Kelley Blue Book site. It would be more if it hadn't had pre-existing cosmetic damage, but getting that fixed might well have cost more than the difference.

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usqueba.livejournal.com

:( Sorry about your truck.

lisa_marli said:

Under $4000
Mazda Protegé ‘97-98
[snip]
$4-6K
Mazda B-Series (2WD) ’98; Millenia ’98; Protegé ‘99-00

My boss had a ?98 Mazda Protege. She LOVED it. I can't remember the mileage but it was up there.

I had a '92 Mazda B2600i. It had almost 300K when we sold it. It was still running but had major problems (I put 250K on it in the ~ 9 years we owned it). It was the BEST truck EVER. It survived a couple of accidents. I would have bought another Mazda truck but (even the king cab) they're a little small for

dieppe ::sigh:: It got ~ 23mpg but I did drive a lot in stop and go traffic and ::cough:: I do drive a little fast when traffic is flowing.

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johno.livejournal.com

Looking over the previous comments...

Agree Toyota/Honda both have vehicles that last a long time and keep on going. Also if you go the Corola/Civic route, there are lots and lots of parts avail.

Chevy/Geo Prizm: We loved ours, but they have issue with the alternator needing to be replaced every 2-3 year, per our experience and our mechanice. Also, our brakes needed work every year we had the car.

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allaboutm-e.livejournal.com

We haven't shopped recently, but make sure you take the kind of driving you tend to do into consideration. E.G. I recently had a friend who was very taken by the idea of hybrids end up not getting one because there wasn't one available that actually conserved energy when used for the kind of regular driving she engages in. My not so helpful $.02.

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